Mieke D, Tony Moaton, And Jillian Jetton

Mieke D

Tony Moaton

Jillian Jetton

interviewed by Elena Araoz

Elena Araoz: As you move toward producing A World Beneath the World and continue your experiments with its story and structure, what methods are you using to collaborate and create material?  Have you named for yourselves any rehearsal best practices?

Mieke D: When we started the project the primary way in which we came together to create material was by showing up at the site, the Woodlands Cemetery, in person yet socially distanced. We observed what we sensed, and what we felt — what we experienced in our own bodies, what we thought about. We traded guided tours, in a sense. We showed each other things, and we practiced showing each other in different ways. So we observed, and we also practiced how to guide each other in observing the space more closely, more deeply, with our entire bodies what was already in the space and what it brought to mind.

As we move forward in the development process, we find ourselves more remote not less, and more strapped for energy and time as the Movement for Black Lives takes center stage right now, which feels right. So what we are doing moving forward is we are going to continue to trade experiments in this way, but we are going to experiment with the form of a scavenger hunt that maybe isn’t site specific but could be shared through snail mail, or a phone call, or through email. Experimenting with different ways of offering experiences to each other while still exploring these themes of death, grief, mortality, survival, mutual aid, and conceptions of the Underworld and the Afterlife.

Some rehearsal best practices include this kind of iterative process of observation and sharing so that we are continually working the muscle of gathering information and also experimenting with how we share it with one another.

When we initially created the project what ended up happening is that, within our respective roles within the piece as it evolved as we created it, each of us took ownership over writing that role. Tony took ownership over the first leg of the journey, Jillian over the second leg, and then we collaborated on the end of the journey which is when my character shows up. I also play the Phone Guide, so I also took leadership over guiding the audience member from beginning to end over the phone, trying to create that throughline which of course also makes sense as the director. 

That way of working was really helpful given the expanse of space we were working within. I mean physically crossing the space was physically exhausting and time consuming so it was really helpful that each of us, from our actual physical locations in the piece could conceive of what was needed from that role, that specific site (within the site), and also that moment in the piece. And then come together to make sure that we were connected and offering a cohesive throughline experience for the audience.   

EA: Are the safety protocols you must take for your performers, crew, and audience integrated as part of the storytelling?

Tony Moaton: I think that the safety protocols are integrated in a wonderful artistic way. I found that portraying a ghost that is always somewhat present but never fully close to the audience member is a wonderful way to maintain social distance.

MD: Yes we definitely took safety precautions for ourselves and for the audience. We maintained social distance while rehearsing. We all brought gloves and masks, I provided sanitizing materials. And we staged it so that audience members would be able to remain socially distant and also make their own choices around that, around safety. We encouraged audience members in a pre-show e-mail to wear safety gear, remain socially distant at all times. The phone guide role was very easy to remain socially distant because I was hidden and I was over the phone! As Tony mentioned, the two other characters in the piece — we conceived of them as ghosts, and as silent guides — so as Tony mentioned, it narratively made sense and fit with their characterization to remain distanced. They also didn’t speak, so we designed it so that the only text in the piece happened over the phone, and that all the in-person interactions were silent. Or didn’t require close listening in order to understand what was going on, and what was expected. 

EA: How is technology helping you guide your audience? What technological tools are you using and how?

TM: The most important technology with the work is the use of the phone. For the most part, the experience is very nature focused, and technology is mainly used to guide the audience member from one scene to the next, or from one experience to the other.

MD: Tony is absolutely right. The other piece of the experience came through email. I sent an initial email to the audience members inviting them into the world, introducing the phone guide character as a character named Destiny, giving them clues to look for when they arrived, as well as reminding them of safety protocols and how to show up. We asked them to wear all white because all the performers in the piece were also wearing all white. We invited them into the world ahead of the experience, to build that anticipation, to give them a little hint of what to expect while maintaining the air of mystery. 

EA: How does character and fiction play into the story and the audience’s experience?

Jillian Jetton: The piece blends facts about the Woodlands Cemetery, the land it's on, and past pandemics (AIDS and the Spanish Flu) with fictional stories and characters. The actors play made up people buried in the cemetery, and feel like sprites or fairies. There is no 4th wall (or any wall...) and the audience member is invited to experience this heightened world and ground down into the "normal" world at the same time. My hope is that this effect bleeds into their life, and that they continue to see the "normal" world through a heightened lens. 

MD: The first character that the audience meets is named Destiny. That’s who the initial email is signed by. Very early on in the piece Destiny casts the audience members in the role of what she calls the Traveler. 

JJ: This omniscient and mysterious guide returns to the audience member several times throughout the piece via phone call. They seem to somehow know exactly where you are at all times, though the audience can't see them yourself. 

Then the audience member is told that someone is expecting them and invited to look around to see who it might be. This starts to cast anyone else who happens to be in the cemetery as a possible character in this world. Soon they see someone wearing an all-white jumpsuit and mask, reminiscent of the PPE worn by healthcare workers who treat Covid-19 patients. The audience member has been asked to wear white as well, and now sees that they are somehow part of this world.

MD: Early on in the experience, over the phone, Destiny describes the cemetery as a world beneath the world. So, already, she hints at the existence of another reality within the reality of the graveyard. She’s also insinuating the world of the dead, the Underworld, the world inhabited by those buried at the graveyard.

TM: In a way, the audience is learning about the inhabitants of the cemetery. While we may not play people who have passed away in the cemetery, we are highlighting a diverse range of stories of the humans for whom the Woodlands is their final resting place. And some of the stories resonate very deeply to what people are dealing with today.

MD: Tony’s character drew upon oral histories of black gay men from the South speaking on the AIDS crisis at the height of that crisis. Jillian’s character drew upon the history of the Spanish Flu, embodying the voice of a child who’s family had passed away from the Spanish Flu after attending a famous parade. In this way, we introduced history of pandemics past, through the voices of these fictional characters (by way of the phone guide). They may not have been real people buried there, but the implication was that they could have been buried there.

We also talked about the Phone Guide character as the most elusive character, much like Destiny itself is elusive. In the face of contemplating mortality, in the face of this current pandemic, we wanted to touch upon what it’s like to be alive right now and — for myself certainly — feeling like I’m constantly having to ask these really big existential questions like: What’s my purpose? What’s my destiny? What do I want to do before I die? What do I need to say to my loved ones? So Destiny was occupying that territory and in the end we did discuss, you know, maybe she’s Death itself. That she’s connected to the other characters in that way — as Destiny and Death. 

It’s worth saying that for future iterations we want to lean even further into both the historical elements and the fictional elements. We want to do more research into histories of people buried at the cemetary to pull out those stories and infuse them throughout the piece — we want to highlight at least five actual people buried there eventually. We want to also draw out from those stories experiences of living through pandemics in the past, and also wisdom advice practices around mutual aid in the face of death, disease, and injustice. 

As for the fictional components, I really want to lean into myths of the Underworld. So that we can create the experience for the audience of going through an Underwrold journey, maybe like Persephone — someone who moves through the underworld but also emerges from it. Begging the a question, in mythology as well as history, how have people survived their personal underworlds. How have they coped? This supports one of the primary motors of this piece, which is giving audiences the sense of hopefulness and wonder and even joy in the face of having to contemplate these really huge questions and move through immense personal and existential grief. 

EA: How would you like an audience member to feel as they move through the scavenger hunt? What techniques will you use to sculpt their physical, emotional, and intellectual experience?

MD: I want audience members to feel both cared for and challenged. I want audience members to be driven by a desire to discover, a desire to understand, to uncover, to find, to figure out, to problem-solve. I want to put the audience members in a place of feeling guided, but not having all of the pieces of the story and not having all of— have enough of a sense of mystery as to feel compelled by curiosity. I want audience members to experience a sense of wonder, in the face of the physical location, at all the details, to bring audience members into their bodies and sensation, and also to feel like they can be in a place that is about honoring the dead, encounter artifacts and informations and characters and stories that connect them to the voices of the dead, in a way that actually feels fantastical and inspiring and other-worldly and magical. 

I don’t want audience members to feel afraid, but I do want them to feel excited about not knowing what’s around the corner. I want them to feel like they are on an adventure, and that there’s enough choice that they get to engage with that adventure in their own way and at their own pace, that they get to be co-creators, but also that there is a mystery to solve, there is an answer, or multiple answers.

EA: Do you imagine this socially distant production may interest and draw an audience different than those who see traditional live performance? How will you marketing to potential audience?

TM: : I think that a socially distant production during this current moment is what may be needed. Across the country as cities start to reopen, many people have already begun to stop practicing the safety measures to keep us all healthy, with people eating out at restaurants and going to parks without their masks on. Although many more people are becoming sick, I think it’s important that we created work that allows people to engage with stories and art while maintaining their safety.

EA: Will you allow families or groups of people who have quarantined together to experience the scavenger hunt together? Or is the intention that everyone will experience it as individuals?

MD: The intention is that everyone experience it as an individual. This is for safety reasons as much as aesthetic ones. It’s important for the safety of the performers as well as passersby at the Woodland Cemetery, who are also present when we conduct the piece. So the audience plus the performers become a performance for onlookers. That was really inspired by the work of Elastic City, a company based out of New York who produced deeply personal and metaphorical, participatory walks. In the end, we hope that audiences feel that sense of togetherness — with the performers, the stories, and the space itself — but it starts from a place of aloneness.

EA: You mentioned you are exploring a more portable, maybe even a boxed version of A World Beneath the World. How might that experience communicate/collaborate with an audience differently than the full scavenger hunt?

JJ:  While the in-person version was site-specific to the Woodlands Cemetery, the box is something that could be experienced in any domestic space. In a sense, it becomes the opposite of site-specific, while still inviting people to have a heightened awareness about the space(s) they are in. 

When we are in front of and interacting with an audience member, there is a real-time exchange that impacts the tenor of the event, but it also limits in some ways what they can do and for how long. The box could have elements that take place over days or even weeks. It also allows a level of privacy that might make room for a different kind of engagement. 

I am interested in providing some way for people to share back their experiences of the box version so it can still have an element of exchange and collectivity. 

EA: What advice might you have for others making performance outside and in public places during this time of Corona?

JJ: As both infection rates and comfort levels continue to fluctuate among your team members (and their pod-mates), it's important to keep the dialogue around safety open, and allow the piece to be as flexible as it needs to be.

Consider how your presence might impact those who work in or visit this space regularly (i.e. city workers, gardeners, dog walkers, etc). Your audience extends beyond those who consented to coming to this show. That can be an exciting layer of your work, as well as a responsibility! What might the people who are often here want to witness? Be changed by witnessing, even from afar? 

This one may be obvious, but make sure to set expectations around and take care of people's physical needs. Tell your audience what they will be doing (sitting? standing? walking? running? how far?) and what they have permission to do (touch something or not, come close to a performer or not, etc). You would be surprised by how differently people are behaving in relation to the virus, so it can help to set some ground rules before they even arrive and reiterate them at the top of the show. For the performers, don't forget that being outside for several hours, even in lovely weather, can be exhausting - especially when being outside has the added layer of fear that it now has. Taking breaks, encouraging people to bring water and snacks, sitting in the shade, etc. can help everyone not burn out.

MD: Yes, all of that. Don’t be afraid to be explicit! And also don’t be afraid to make a game out of the restrictions and the possibilities — consider issues of accessibility and safety as key aspects of world-building. These elements — whether they come from artistic choice or from emergent needs — are a part of the language, conventions, and style of your piece. Don’t shy away from that — embrace it! You might even make a new art form in the process. Also — as I sit here talking about new art forms — recognize that we are not the first people to be figuring this stuff out. There is a whole world out there of disability justice organizing and performance art by and for disabled artists — there are so many people who have already been doing everything we are all trying to do now! Sins Invalid, for example, and the new book called Care Work are great places to start. It might feel new to centralize accessibility under these particular circumstances, but there’s a lot of wisdom out there. Don’t be afraid to go look for it! And to pay for it, with gratitude! 

EA: You have done another pivot during this time, putting time and resources that may have gone into this project into your work for the Black Live Matter Movement. Will your work in the Movement change or influence A World Beneath the World in ways that you may not have expected when you first began creating the production?

MD: I hope that the current uprising, Black-led movement-building in general, and all the work to dismantle policing as we know it will change and influence all of us. The themes within this project are not unrelated, but they are not directly related. It feels important to focus as much attention and resources on the work of dismantling racism right now, and not in esoteric ways but in really direct ones. We are all being called upon to undo racism within our own lives, shoulder-to-shoulder with black-led movements. The way we’re planning to stay invested in this really soul-nourishing project, while also leveling up in the work of anti-racism, is by scaling back for awhile in order to create a version of the project that can be widely distributed. We hope to, at some point, fundraise for black-led movement-building with the portable version of this project. I have always been committed to anti-racism within my work and practice. In this moment, it feels important to adjust our expectations to account for the extra weight that black folks are carrying right now, and non-black folks to help shoulder some of that burden in any way we can. We will move at the pace that we can in order to adequately fundraise to pay all current and future collaborators. This project is designed to be adaptive and to highlight stories that are relevant to our current and on-going struggles with health and injustice. We will continue to do that in a way that allows us to change and adapt to the times. 

While initial research for the project focused on the activism surrounding the AIDS crisis— and organizations like ACT UP — lately, I have been thinking a lot about the community health clinics organized and supported by the Black Panthers. There is a vast history of mutual aid and community-based healthcare that came out of surviving and resisting racism, in black communities, and in collaboration with radical movement-building. That history is deep. I think this current uprising is reminding all of us not to forget those threads of history in this country, and how important it is that we all get behind black liberation. Getting through this pandemic and dismantling racism are not separate.

EA: Is there anything else you would like us to know?

TM: I was so grateful to be a part of an experience that explored what it means to live, and to do it in a way that was immersive and focused on an audience member’s singular experience. What is exciting and innovative about doing this form of socially distanced art-making is the way that it is intertwined with the loneliness and isolation that many people are feeling. After so many virtual parties and funerals, and Zoom fatigue, and the fear of whether or not a person will still be alive by the end of the year, it means so much more to have been a part of something that acknowledges all of those things, and allows you to reflect and simply exist.

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