Jacqueline Goldfinger

interviewed by Miranda Allegar

about Jacqueline Goldfinger’s play Click:  

A techno-thriller that begins when a young woman is raped at a fraternity and ends in a future where corporations promise a new body with the swipe of a screen, “Click” follows a hacktivist named Fresh who turns industrial espionage into high art. As this virtual Banksy takes over the global imagination, the man who stole her life develops a technology that sends the two of them on a collision course at the heart of the corporate empire, where innovation comes at any cost. A cyberpunk drama for the #MeToo era, this is a powerful and moving work about reclaiming your power, your life, and your identity.

Miranda Allegar:  So you recently adapted your 2019 play Click for the digital world. How did you go about the process of adapting an existing work for a new setting, viewing Zoom as a site-specific virtual platform? What made you choose this particular show?

Jacqueline Goldfinger:  So when COVID hit, I had a number of productions scheduled of Click that got canceled. And so the question initially was, do I create something for the online format, which is what it looks like we're going to? And I was very lucky. I have a friend who works at Strange Sun Theater, and she said, "Oh, we're looking to do a digital theater experience and explore what that means. Do you want to send us a play for us to consider for our festival?"

And I was like, "Sure, like I'm a new play whore. I will send you any play you want at any time.” And since Click had been canceled for production and Click had also very neat vignette scenes that could be separated easily. It seemed like the ideal piece, because what I have learned through watching quite a bit of online theater and Zoom readings and that type of work is that, unlike when we're in the theater and we're live and we know exactly what everyone sees, in the Zoom world, even if people are tuned in online, they have kids in the background and they're folding laundry and all of these things. So the scenes need to be vignette-y. They need to be enclosed. They need to be very clear, more like television in that way. On the other hand, unlike television, it seems like people are still interested in going deeper into the character than what you usually get in TV. So it's not TV, but there were some principles of television that we applied to make sure that people could tune in and stay with us even if they had distractions in the background. 

MA: I think that was one of the things that intrigued me so much about the kind of reframing into the museum setting and the introduction of the Marci tour guide character. Some of the moments that you could have missed in the other scenes were made explicit in a way where it still worked, even if you were moving in and out of different scenes.

JG: Oh, excellent. Thank you. 'Cause we worked a lot on the timing and we worked on that to make sure that people would get all the pieces they need to put it together. Marci and the virtual museum frame was also completely new. And one of the reasons we used that frame—we had two reference points. One was in episodic television, where they often have characters at the top of the show tell you what happened last episode, so you can tune in. And two was Shakespeare.

Shakespeare was incredibly good at making sure that whenever he had a complicated plot thing happen, the next scene or monologue was like a drunk guy chasing a dog and telling you what had happened off stage, right? Shakespeare does a great job of creating—well, of everything really—but also of creating pieces that when people were watching them, because he was writing during a time where people would be also eating at the same time and seeing friends at the same time, performing on the back of wagons, performing in town squares, where people were distracted and also watched the play, he also does this lovely thing where he makes sure that whenever their complicated plot thing happens, there's a catch-up scene soon after, or a catch-up monologue. And some of those are the monologues that we love performing the best today. Right? 'Cause they're succinct stories. They usually have some entertaining element, like a drunk guy or a dog or a juggler or, you know, circus performer because he didn't want people who had already seen the information and gotten it to be bored. So he added this extra layer of entertainment on top of the informational monologue. So it was really like TV and Shakespeare were our two inspirations with how we carved out Marci's character and how we created the frame of the museum experience.

MA: I think that recapitulation aspect of the tour guide was super interesting, but the other thing that I found so intriguing about it was kind of the complication of the role of the audience. It's something I've seen in a couple of virtual theater pieces over the last few months, is this kind of activation of the audience into some specific role within the show. What do you think it is about virtual theater that makes this new kind of audience engagement so necessary? And why did it feel important right now to add that?

JG: For me, I can say that one of the experiences I love in theater is going to site-specific theater, where you have to make choices about what you're going to see, and then those choices inform how you process and understand the story. And so since Click is all about how we receive information, how information is fractured through different online and in-person interactions, and then how you put the story together yourself, which also speaks to the idea of why so many people in America think that so many different things are happening, right? They can't agree on one quote-unquote truth because the information they're getting is fractured through all of the different lenses that they choose to access. So I felt like not only did I love that site-specific type of experience, I was wondering how we could use Zoom basically as a site-specific space. So rather than thinking of it as an online space, even though it is, primarily thinking of it as a site-specific space was of interest to me. And then also simply because of the themes of Click, in terms of communication and fractured communication and lens and perspective, those were already in the play. So I was like, how do we reflect those themes and get people to think about and engage with those themes in an active way, and the breakout rooms and the chat features are perfect to do that. It's also one of the reasons that we chose to rewrite it specifically for Zoom. We looked at a number of platforms, but the other platforms, there were pluses in terms of they were easier to use for presentational purposes, but the negatives were that they gave less interactivity. And with less interactivity, you're not going to get the site-specific feel of the piece.

So it was both form and function that led us to use Zoom. And I think that people are often engaged in theater in other ways in their lives that we see outside the physical building space that we just don't know about. And so this also allows us to bring some of that in, which is fun.

MA: I think that's so true right now. I think the wide array of presentations of theater right now, and the kind of blurring between different media and art forms is one of the most exciting developments of the pandemic sphere of theater for me so far.

JG: I agree. Totally.

MA: I think the role of technology in Click came out even more for me in this online format. From the integration of the Greek Chorus into the chat which I thought worked so well, as the Chorus speaks in the language of social media comment sections. But I think ultimately what was most striking to me was the fact that this play, where live-streaming video is so central to the plot already, was happening over a live-streaming platform. When [the character] Fresh said specifically, "No one turned it off," [referencing her live-streamed assault], for me that was chilling in a way it might not have been in person. It felt sort of like I was voyeur, like I was watching something I wasn't supposed to in that moment. It even further complicated that existence as an audience member. How do you think the role of technology in the show transforms when it's presented online?

JG: I actually think the show might work better online. I think there were some technical glitches that we're still working out as it was a first workshop of it. But in terms of content, we wanted you to feel implicated in the stage play, but it didn't quite happen. There were other great elements of the stage play that we had to cut and I absolutely miss. But, in terms of the intent of the piece and what it's trying to say and what it's trying to make the audience feel and think about, part of it was implicating ourselves in these problems. Like, yes, we say that it's a problem that this violence is online and yet everyone clicks on clickbait, right? So everyone watches it when it's there. So I'm actually glad that you felt that. That was something we were trying to do in the original stage play that never quite sunk in, but I think is much stronger in the online version and also makes me think about what other shows would be great online because they implicate the audience in some way. And, you know, I think of things like, wow, it might be really amazing to do a Mother Courage and her Children set in Afghanistan online, right? Because vignette-y enough you understand it. It would allow for people to go into the breakout rooms to see different points of view. And yet a part of that play is so much about how we watch war and allow it to happen, rather than turning it off or doing something. So I think that there are definitely pluses, benefits, to moving some work online and it will help amplify their themes whether that work is new or a classic.

MA: In bringing Click specifically online and finding that some of these elements translate to this form, was bringing Click into a more virtual or digital space or into more direct contact with technology, a preexisting thought or was it entirely brought on by the current moment?

JG: Great question. So it's interesting. Initially, the first draft actually wasn't a museum tour, but it was more expressionistic, vignette-y version of the play. And thinking back, it's like, oh, I think I was always going towards the play to feel this way, but I didn't know what tools were out there. And so for sure, I think there's something in the DNA of the play that like, this is where it was trying to get to. I just didn't know the "to" was there. And I think that really, because of COVID, that's what made—I learned about Zoom, because I had to teach on it.

You know, I teach playwriting in the MFA program at Temple University. I'm going to UC Davis this upcoming year teaching playwriting in the MFA program. So for all of those courses, I've had to shift to online. I ended up this spring getting a digital certificate in teaching online, just because I wanted to learn what tools were out there. And once I learned these tools actually existed, I was like, oh my God, the implications for the form are fantastic. And what I hope is that this is just seen as another form of theater rather than as something separate from theater. And I hope that it continues post-COVID, because I do think that we're seeing in terms of audience access, in terms of diversity of work, in terms of work that resonates with contemporary themes, like in all of these areas, we're seeing that actually online programming in a benefit. I don't think it's going to cut into live programming revenue, like live and online are completely different. But it's like a concert, right? You can watch a concert film and you still want to go the band play in person. You can listen to a cast recording of a musical and still want to go see the live show. So what I'm hoping is that this evolution of theater is like that. It's like, this is just another thing we can do to amplify our work and our artists and our ideas.

MA: That makes a lot of sense. What do you think you'll personally carry with you from this process and this moment in theater? And how do you hope that the world of theater will change?

JG: . . . I think the greatest lesson that I've learned during COVID—and the uprising, right? All the protests—is that I thought that I was free of preconceived notions about how you make theater and what theatrical stories are. And now I realized, no, I was just at the very bottom of a very tall and exciting mountain of what the actual possibilities can be. And so what I will personally carry forward is that knowledge there's so much more out there that we can use in our storytelling and that we can call theatrical and that we can look at as stories that are appropriate for theater that in the past may not have been. I will also carry forward with me more self confidence in the ability that I can make things on my own and put them out there and still connect with an audience.

You know, there's a little bit of fear, I think, at least for me being a professional theater artist, like I need the institution. And while the institutions do provide a lot of important support services, I can also do this by myself. I've made a number of things to put online. Click is definitely the most innovative, but, frankly, I've made more from my playwriting over the past six months than I have in years, because with how niche the internet can be, you can really find your audience. And the audiences online in my experience tend to be more willing to take artistic leaps with you than audiences in person. And there are a lot of reasons for that, right? There's ticket price. There's accessibility. There's assumptions about who does and does not belong in a theater or what an audience does or does not look like. There are lots of reasons. And that's a whole other conversation. But I think that moving forward, I will just have more confidence that if I have projects that don't fit into kind of the round hole of institutional theater, it's okay to be a square peg. And I will be able to find audiences to support that and to engage with, which is really exciting for me personally. For the industry, I hope that this kick-starts a technological innovation that, frankly, we probably should have done ten or fifteen years ago. But for various reasons—again, a whole other conversation—we did not. But I'm hoping that it's not back to usual after this, that there is significant systemic change, as well as an individual change. That would be amazing.

MA: What do you think the role of theater and of art-making is right now amidst the pandemic and a social revolution? And what has it meant to you to keep making art right now?

JG: I think its role right now is in saving our souls. You know, we talk about art is essential and definitely you need food and water to eat, or you can't breathe. Like there are absolutely other essentials that feed the body. But I feel like we are feeding the spirit and the intellect and the soul of people. And that is what keeps us—that gives us hope for the future. It keeps us from just laying down in the streets and slitting our throats because we have visions of what could be. We get excited about things. We get hopeful about things. We fall in love over things. And that is what keeps us evolving as individuals and as communities are those hopes, those visions, those prayers. And so I see us now as almost a very important spiritual element of the community—whether people take that in, you know, religiously—not necessarily in a religious context, but in a—if we didn't have art right now, if everybody had been sitting at home alone in the dark since March, I think we would not be seeing the social change that we are seeing now. Art has fueled that, 'cause it's kept us hoping. It's kept us dreaming. It's kept us looking to the future. And so I think it's a very important food for the soul, especially in these type of times.

MA: Do you see Click specifically as a political or activist work in how it deals with technology, with issues of consent and communication? Has that evolved as you've gone from the stage version to this online version?

JG: So I see the personal as political, right? Especially when the bodies that you're putting on stage are regulated by laws and by policies. Especially when it comes to race and ethnicity and gender and gender identity and all of those things, whatever the outside government chooses to put on the individual bodies, that makes every, everything political. Because personal choice is being shaped by those external policies. Therefore, you can never ignore it. But I do think that Click, as opposed to some of my other work that is more intimate and family-driven, has more of a political element. My hope though is that it's not a polemic piece. Like we're not shouting a sermon at you. But instead we're seeing how the political factors shape people's lives and then shape the personal, intimate choices they have to make. explore that in quite a few of my plays, but especially in Click because I think that that is often a missing link in the conversations that we're having now is that—what's a good example?

I'll use an example from an event in Philly recently, just 'cause I live in Philly. There was a person who was a straight white man who was screaming at one of the protesters and got hit in the head with some kind of hard object. Somebody threw something, right? And so some leaders in the community stood up and said, "Violence is never the answer. Bwock, bwock, bwock." And it's like, okay, you say violence is never the answer. And yet here are the ten things that put political pressure on this person who is now throwing this can of beans or whatever it was at the white supremacist. It's that this person couldn't keep a job because this person couldn't finish high school because this person had to take care of their parent because their parent was ill and there was no health care. You look at all of these social choices and political choices and they absolutely shape every individual choice from throwing cans of beans to blowing up a building. And I'm not saying that we should relinquish ourselves to the most violent of our nature. But what I'm saying is that to pretend that what happens in the world outside a person does not shape the choices they make is not only ignorant, but dangerous. So I think that we need to acknowledge that the personal is political and be more comfortable with almost every play being political. Does that make sense?

MA: Definitely. I think that's what I've found particularly important about watching and viewing art right now is that it doesn't give you an answer or tell you how to interpret things, it poses questions and situations that give way to emotion. And that kind of helps you shape your own opinions by seeing how something that might be an abstract concept or cold and void of emotion in a news article or in technological terms or in the specific politics actually translates to the personal. I think that's the role of telling stories right now. And I think that's why people have turned so much to art right now. I think seeing how something like a live-streamed video on Facebook translates to a specific story in a specific person's life and then having to feel the weight of that as an audience member does so much more beyond just reading about, oh, what are the laws and the nuances of regulations around intellectual property and even child pornography. It gives emotion to something that could be stripped of that.

JG: I completely agree. And the emotion is what causes people to change. We know from psychological study after study that you can give all the facts you want, but nine times out of ten, if someone feels it, that will change the way they behave rather than if they just hear it. And I think that you're absolutely right. That is the gift that we can give to the world right now is that in a time when there's so much hearing going on, we can introduce the feeling.

MA: Definitely.What inspired you to present the show with the breakout rooms and have the audience make these choices, rather than presenting it sequentially? The scenes are still vignettes and could have been put across in the same way as in the original script.

JG: . . . Absolutely. So in the play, when you see it on stage, it was all done straight through. And that provided an opportunity to dig down into individual characters and uncover a lot of how their political ideas and how their choices came to make sense to them. In the digital realm, one of the things that's exciting is, like you say, we have so much coming at us through the screen at all times, is that when people are watching on a screen, as opposed to live on stage, that I find that they're willing to be more active participants and active thinkers, because there's an expectation that they're not going to be able to see everything. And so they have to pick and choose and draw their own conclusions.

And so if one of the themes of Click, which I think it is, is the pros and cons of social media and the blossoming of technology and how much information can come through a screen at you, then it seemed inherent there had to be choice, and there had to be parts of the story you saw and parts of the story you did not see. It just seemed like otherwise, the deeper truth of the theme would be left unmined, given the platform we're working on.

MA: I think like that approach of forcing this audience engagement right now to compensate for the attention span online is so critical, especially when presenting a full-length work instead of making a shorter digital-specific work. Even as a regular theater-goer and theater-maker, sitting and watching your screen for an hour and a half or two hours is a very different experience than sitting in a theater and doing the same thing. I found the breakout rooms effective almost as a reminder, a check in to say like, “Are you still here? Are you paying attention? Are you engaged?”

JG: Absolutely. I think it functions really well in that way, because, like you, when I watch friends' work, I'm like, "I need you to send me a video." Because I'll be able to watch about thirty minutes and then I'll have to take a break because, after that, my attention wanders. Through a screen, it just does. So absolutely I think that just in terms of the functionality of keeping people engaged, keeping the screen moving, keeping people's eyes moving from the chat box to the screen, it just helps. We also were like, it's no more than eighty minutes. It has to be shorter. We found that the original play comes in a little over two hours and we did a reading early on of the full thing just to see how it would work. And the fact was that the length prohibited the depth of thought and idea because the length was so long, all of your energy was directed at stamina and just keeping up. So that undermined what we were trying to do in terms of getting people to think and talk about it.

Also it's a fun journey. We had a couple of friends who made plans. They're like, "Okay, I'm going to follow the main screen. And then you're going to follow the breakout rooms. And then we're going to come together and talk about what we think the story is," right? That's also one of the fun things to do online. Like if we ever get to do a full run of this, figure out all the Zoom kinks and do a full run. What I want to have is like conversations after every single run, you know. Maybe give people a break. So we're taking a twenty minute break, go to the bathroom, get a glass of wine, whatever. And if you want to come back, then we want to hear based on what you saw, what you think happened and who it happened to, and what your impressions were, so that the piece is actively engaging in conversation, not just as art, but also as like a community-centered space where it's not about right or wrong. It's about exploring how differently we can come to conclusions based on the same events, given what we've seen.

MA: I think that that's so relevant right now, especially when the ways in which you get your news or your media changes how you end up feeling about the same set of information. I think that's fascinating.

JG: And I don't think that's going to go away. Like if we had a vaccine tomorrow—which we won't. People just have to chill. But, reality. Disease doesn't care about, you know, us—But even if COVID was to go away tomorrow and we could jump back into our lives, the fact is that the earth is a big planet and we're becoming more connected. And that means that there's going to be a lot more sources of information and that can be good and that can be bad. And often it's somewhere in the middle, in the gray area. But even post-COVID, it's just a conversation that we're going to keep having to have. So let's have it. Let's do it.

MA: Yeah, I think it's so applicable right now and always. And even in watching that and having the breakout room experience, it almost reminded me—and I was so intrigued to see that this was next in the Strange Sun digital workshop series—of Fefu and Her Friends and having that experience of moving from scene to scene and the experience changing with the order that you see the scenes and having the chance to kind of come away with a different experience than the person next to you I think is such an important and exciting way of changing audience engagement. And that was such a wonderful coincidence to me to kind of—I had that thought upon reading the script for zoom and seeing this breakout room idea. And then when you sent me the link to the Strange Sun registration page, I was like, this synergy makes a lot of sense.

JG: Yeah. And that's what I love. Jessica Bashline who runs Strange Sun,  I've watched her work for years. And one of the things I love is she's fearless and she doesn't bullshit herself. So many theater leaders BS themselves into "everything's always going to be the same."

And Jess is like, "Nothing is ever the same. So Strange Sun, like the work or not, is gonna face forward, always. Which is for me what made participating in this digital theater festival very different than anything else. I've been asked to participate in other digital theater festivals, but they just want to do a straight reading of a play. And I'm like, I just don't think that's going to be interesting. I think people are going to be exhausted. They're not gonna have the energy for the conversation or the thinking required afterwards.

But yes, I was thrilled to see Fefu; I'm going to tune in for that one too. I would love to—I'm trying to convince a friend of mine who does choral work that we should do a Zoom Candide, because Candide would work beautifully on Zoom. And actually, I think—I don't know if you know that musical. It's a beautiful musical but a super problematic book, given the form and the way that it was adapted. I actually think that it would be better on a Zoom online platform than in theater, because actually having overlaps and breaks in the narrative where you choose rooms would again amplify the themes of that piece. So again, another classical piece that the nature of the technological online staging could amplify. So I think there's a lot of exciting possibilities. . . . I think that theater is the art form that is suited to ask and start answering that with a plethora of different answers, which are all right in their own way, because the fact is we're the only living art form. People get pissed off when I say that, but like, deal. Everything else gets made and then frozen. We're the only thing that continues to evolve over days, over years, over centuries. So it makes so much sense that in this evolving world where new technologies are being created, theater is the one art form that can most specifically and in the most exciting ways respond. 'Cause we're living. Just thrilling. It's a thrilling time to me to be a theater artist.

MA: I agree. I think one of the things that's been so exciting to me has been seeing all of this innovation happen instead of just trying to fight to go back to the way things were.

JG: Yeah, and I definitely miss the way things were. I'm not putting them down. I love being in communion with people. I love sitting in an audience and laughing with the stranger next to me. I love running into someone in the bathroom and having an incredibly intense conversation over washing our hands. So I think, again, I think we'll go back to that, but I think that if we also allow ourselves and our art to blossom in the digital world, that it will bolster both the online and the in-person experiences. And it will actually make theater relevant again in a way that it hasn't been for the past couple of generations.

MA: I agree. I think that's definitely an important part of this moment and I've loved seeing the change in thought and the need to make theater relevant to the specific moment again. I think that's why I'm so excited that you brought up Shakespeare and how he engaged audiences. I think so much of the current moment reminds me of kind of theater of that era.

JG: Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's exciting, 'cause they were remaking theater, you know. They may have had more money because you know, Queen Elizabeth probably gave more money to the arts than our idiotic leaders at this moment in time. But we are figuring it out!

MA: What was the most surprising part of recreating this piece and the experience of playwriting online? Over the month that you've spent workshopping the piece, what was the moment where you were like, "Oh, I didn't think this is what this would be."

JG: I was initially excited intellectually about this challenge, but emotionally I was terrified and I'm like, "I'm going to fuck this up. This is going to be terrible. And I'm going to have to apologize to everyone." And what surprised me was. . . how much I enjoyed it when I finally gave in and instead of trying to fight the fact that it was online in my head and in my heart and was just like, “It’s just a fucking Zoom play and I’m just going to write it so it can only be performed on Zoom.” When I gave into the site-specificness of it—which I should have given into much earlier, but I’m not very bright, so I didn’t—but, once I did and just understood that it was just another site for a site-specific piece like the nine million other site-specific pieces I’ve collaborated on, then I realized, “Okay, I can do this and I know how to do this.”

And then once I figured that out, I started enjoying doing it, because it gave me the opportunity to try things that would never have worked, especially on a proscenium stage in person. So, that, how much I started to enjoy it was surprising to me. And then I thought of all of these other classics we could adapt in this way, given what the strengths of this system are. So that was super surprising and fun.

MA:  What did you miss the most about the stage version in bringing this to Zoom?

JG: I had two stage versions of this before COVID—the world premiere at Simpatico Theatre in Philadelphia, which Adrienne Mackey directed beautifully. And what she did was she brought in some original or newly composed opera music, and so it elevated the technology moments in this really gorgeous theatrical way and the Greek Chorus did opera and movement work during those moments. And while that would have never worked on screen, the fact is that Mackey’s direction in those moments was some of the most beautiful work I’ve seen done onstage. So, I missed Adrienne’s take on the show in those moments. 

And then Rudy Ramirez at VORTEX Theater in Austin did the second production, which was the production in January, right before everything shut down. And what I miss from Rudy’s production is that he is such a master of human emotion that he was able to heighten the resonance of the themes between characters just with silence and just with juxtaposition of their physical bodies in space. So of the productions, I absolutely missed those being live. But, again, like you highlighted earlier, I think we gained in connecting theme and resonances of technology in everyone’s life today. And, you know, it’s only been half a day since the workshop, so I’ve only gotten a little bit of feedback so far. But so far, even a couple of folks I know who’ve seen the in-person versions, one of the in-person versions, the online version for them was just more resonant and more intimate and powerful because of that.

Click at VORTEX Theater

MA: How do you see Click evolving when we can perform theater in person again?

JG: If someone wants to do the in-person version, I have that version. Got two versions. Got the stage version and the virtual edition. But honestly, I’m hoping the conversation will have moved forward enough culturally that that play will no longer be of interest. One of the things I always hope—and this drives my agent nuts, because it does date my plays sometimes, but, oh well, fuck capitalism—when I have plays that I know are going to be, just by the subject matter we’re discussing and the community it’s being performed in, are going to be considered more political, my hope is always that my play is a part of that conversation at that time, and then, by being a part of that conversation, helps us progress and then that play is seen as an artifact of a time that no longer exists. So in the best of all possible worlds, this will become an artifact in the next few years. But who knows? Regardless, I have both versions if anybody wants them. They’re on the New Play Exchange! Read them today.

Click at VORTEX Theater

MA: That was one of the things I picked up on in reading the two versions side-by-side was your continuing of keeping it very of the moment. Like, there was a reference to The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel in the first edition from 2019 that evolved into a reference to Beyonce just after her drops this summer. 

JG: I wish that we, just in general in the arts, not just in performing arts but across the spectrum in the arts, valued that more instead of looking for what is always eternal and is gonna always want to watch this play. Who cares? Frankly, the audience from a hundred years ago is dead and rotting in the ground. And the audience of a hundred years from now—well, maybe a hundred and fifty years from now given our better healthcare—but, a hundred and fifty years from now is not born. So why am I writing for dead people and people who aren’t born yet, right? I’m writing for people today. And I think one of the reasons that art has sometimes focused on the idea of universal and eternal is because of just the systems of capitalism around art, because it makes it more sellable. But the reality is the pieces I’ve seen that have moved me the most have absolutely been fearless to just be of today. And if they last, that’s great. Like, if someone is reading my plays in a hundred and fifty years, I’m not going to cry about it! That’d be cool! But, as someone who has chosen to be a part of a living art form, it’s not my primary focus. And I think there’s nothing worse than you go to a theater or you log on online to see theatrical work and it already feels dated. It feels like “this would have really meant something to me if I would’ve seen it six months ago or two years ago, but it’s not resonant today.” But because of the systems we have in place, it’s just made it to the stage. And that’s just sad. And not helpful for anyone.

MA: Definitely. I think that’s one of the things that I really hope the industry carries over from right now is the immediacy of being able to create and put up works in a short time span without having to worry about jumping through hoops, just getting it out there when it’s relevant.

JG: Absolutely, and not needing things to be “perfect” or “polished.” Right? If someone has time to polish it, that’s great! Nothing against that. But that the immediacy and the visceral is more important than the polish.

Learn more about Jacqueline Goldfinger here.

The new Zoom edition and the stage script of “Click” can be found here on the New Play Exchange website.

Watch the videoed stage version at Vortex Rep here.